Looking after the River Esk and its wildlife - Katrina Vernon
Katrina Vernon, a volunteer with Buglife, talks with host Osbert Lancaster.
Listen to hear how Kat’s work taking children out in nature led to her becoming a citizen scientist monitoring the health of the River Esk, and later training others to do the same.
Kat reflects on how even when things can seem bad, coming together to work with other people to take action makes a difference. Kat talks about the importance not just of spending time in nature, but also learning about what’s going on in our rivers and woodlands and how we can care for them.
Changing Climate, Changing Midlothian explores what the climate and nature emergency means with people living and working in the county. Their reflections will help inform discussions as cross sector representatives and community leaders meet in October to agree a new Single Midlothian Plan setting collective outcomes and actions for the next three years.
Changing Climate, Changing Midlothian is produced for the Midlothian Community Planning Climate Emergency Group by Thrivable Scotland, and is kindly supported by Midlothian Climate Action Hub, Midlothian Community Planning and Midlothian Energy Ltd.
Find out more about:
- Guardians of our Rivers
- Riverfly on the Esk | Midlothian | Facebook
- Midlothian & East Lothian OWL Group
- This podcast and the Midlothian Community Planning Partnership
Thrivable Scotland helps changemakers engage their colleagues, communities and stakeholders to solve challenges today while building capacity to thrive in an unpredictable future.
Transcript
My son was a zoologist and when he went to uni, they
2
:said to him pick three species,
which are in the endangered list.
3
:And by the time he was
finished, they were extinct.
4
:so it can be quite, quite drastic.
5
:. you've got to do what you can
and not overly think 'cause then
6
:you would become beside yourself
7
:I'm Osbert Lancaster, and this is
changing Climate, Changing Midlothian,
8
:where we explore what the climate and
nature emergency means with people
9
:living and working in the county.
10
:In this episode, I'm talking with
Katrina Vernon, a volunteer with Bug
11
:Life as we walk in Meadowfield Park
on the side of Arthur's Seat, looking
12
:out over Midlothian in the distance.
13
:I started by asking Kat how she
came to be a volunteer with Bug
14
:Life and the Riverfly Project.
15
:Kat Vernon: I was working out in
Midlothian at Newbattle Abbey and, uh,
16
:was out with a group of children doing
the forest kindergarten, and we came
17
:across Rebecca Lewis, and Clive at the
riverside, doing some water sampling Uhhuh
18
:and we went over and asked her what she
was doing and she showed the children
19
:and everything what she was up to.
20
:And, um, then she came and did a,
a sort of group session with them
21
:when it kinda led to adding it to
our green flag and things like that.
22
:So it covered the whole of
the curriculum for excellence,
23
:when we were doing it as well.
24
:So, and then just got
really interested in it.
25
:So Becky asked me if , I'd
like to do the training.
26
:Mm-hmm.
27
:So I ended up doing the training
and one of the sites was short of a
28
:few people, so down at Roslin Glen
29
:. So I go down there with my friend Amy,
and we do it once a month and collect
30
:mm-hmm a sample, which then gets
31
:Osbert: so out with the
little, dip nets, they call
32
:' Kat Vernon: waders on and kick sampling.
33
:And then dividing the species, so it
can take up to two to three hours,
34
:but I always think it's just like
once a month and you're doing a bit
35
:for the environment and everything,
36
:I, I became really interested in it.
37
:So I'm not only trained in it Yeah.
38
:I'm now training so that I can actually
train people in it, so that they can
39
:go out and we can create more sites
and create more data, create more
40
:connections with SEPA things are happening
which is all always a good thing.
41
:Osbert: Why does it matter?
42
:Why do we need to do it every month?
43
:What's it telling us?
44
:Kat Vernon: Uh, it matters because,
you know, we have these indicators,
45
:the species that we collect
they're all part of the food chain.
46
:So for example, if we didn't have
them cleaning up all the debris
47
:and everything on the river, then
our rivers will get mucky as well.
48
:But on top of that, they feed the fish.
49
:And it was actually the anglers
that started this up originally
50
:because they noticed that there
wasn't as many fish, there wasn't
51
:as many insects and they started
this to start monitoring the river.
52
:we also were involved in a project where
we all came together and we went up
53
:to Gladhouse, the source of the river
and insects are, I would say they're
54
:about four to five times the size in
comparison to further down the river.
55
:So,
56
:Osbert: so if that they've got better
food sources or less pollution or
57
:Kat Vernon: Yeah.
58
:Less pollution.
59
:Less pollution.
60
:Yeah.
61
:Better food sources.
62
:Just the whole thing.
63
:Cleaner water,
64
:yeah.
65
:The funding that we've done just now
looks at the species not just the
66
:family , breaking them down even further.
67
:Osbert: Yeah.
68
:Kat Vernon: And they're all susceptible
to different types of pollution.
69
:So it should come out with more
data , the south and the north and see
70
:what's happening across both sites,
you know, of the Esk River itself.
71
:Osbert: That a beautiful
blue butterfly there.
72
:Kat Vernon: That would be the small blue,
73
:Osbert: Another one there.
74
:Yeah.
75
:It's like little jewels.
76
:Kat Vernon: You know, I grew
up in nature , I loved it but I
77
:didn't know that much about it.
78
:Mm-hmm.
79
:And then did my forest school
training just taught me so much
80
:about plants and trees and birds
and butterflies So I learned a lot
81
:doing that and then going out into
nature with the children, how great
82
:it was for their health and wellbeing.
83
:, then when we met Becky as well, I knew
there was insects on, on the river.
84
:Yeah.
85
:You know, you see 'em flying.
86
:But I didn't clock.
87
:There was insects in the
river as well, you know.
88
:Osbert: Yeah.
89
:Unless you look for then
you wouldn't, you wouldn't.
90
:Kat Vernon: Yeah.
91
:Osbert: Yeah.
92
:Kat Vernon: So you can
be in nature but not
93
:Osbert: Yeah.
94
:Kat Vernon: Not know about it,
you know, it's, uh, and I think
95
:that's a life learning journey
96
:Osbert: as
97
:Kat Vernon: well.
98
:Uhhuh, you know, you get
interested in something.
99
:Yeah.
100
:Like just now it's like the bird sounds
101
:Osbert: Yeah.
102
:Kat Vernon: You know, that
I'm trying to identify.
103
:And
104
:Osbert: how are you going with that?
105
:I find like, I keep on like hear
a bird, I put out the Merlin app.
106
:I go always a such and such
107
:Kat Vernon: uhhuh.
108
:Osbert: I hear the same sound
again the next day, but I've
109
:forgotten entirely what it is.
110
:Kat Vernon: I know I pick up
a few, like that's the magpie
111
:so many people interested in birds, but
there's so few interested in insects.
112
:Mm-hmm.
113
:And especially insects in the river.
114
:There was a group down at Auchendinny,
down at the Threee Hares there,
115
:they'd asked us to come and sample
the water, they were a bit concerned.
116
:So, we went down, we did the
river dip, showed them all, insect
117
:got 'em to separate them all.
118
:And you know, from that I'm hopefully
gonna be training a couple of
119
:people that were interested in that
mm-hmm that have came back Yep.
120
:That are now going then go in and
start doing their own sampling as well.
121
:Mm-hmm.
122
:So, so in that respect then you're
passing the word on and Yeah.
123
:Hopefully will grow, like
124
:Osbert: Like sort of ripples in a pond.
125
:Kat Vernon: Yeah.
126
:and even when we're, we're doing our
samples at the side, at Roslin, the
127
:people that walk past us with the dogs
or children and they'll come, come
128
:over and ask us what we're doing mm-hmm,
and show them all the invertebrates in
129
:in the dish they're very interested in
it as well, and there's a lot of them
130
:are curious if the water's clean or
whether it's been dirty or whether you
131
:know, or what, what would affect it.
132
:Osbert: You mentioned how good being out
in nature is for the health and wellbeing
133
:of the kids, but what does that actually
like, look like in practise rather than
134
:just ticking a health and wellbeing box.
135
:Kat Vernon: Well, I always
think about my youth.
136
:I was out and about and I was
only home when it was dinner
137
:time you're out playing all day.
138
:. So you're out in fresh air, you're
running about, you're active,
139
:you eat better, you sleep better.
140
:It's just the whole thing.
141
:And because you take out small groups,
you've got that nurture mm-hmm.
142
:And that care.
143
:Mm-hmm.
144
:And the kind of bond that you
create with the group as well.
145
:Mm-hmm.
146
:Osbert: So that you've got that
health and wellbeing aspect.
147
:Mm-hmm.
148
:And on top of that the curriculum stuff.
149
:Kat Vernon: Yes.
150
:Osbert: Yeah.
151
:Is that happening at all
stages through the school?
152
:The, that sort of potential
for that to come together?
153
:Or is that
154
:Kat Vernon: It depends, it's like
your environmental stewards, some
155
:schools will have them, some schools
might not have them as active as others.
156
:This was early years I
was working in as well.
157
:Osbert: Right.
158
:And early years, what does that
159
:Kat Vernon: cover?
160
:That's, that covers like
three to five year olds.
161
:But today I was out with groups that
were up to about 12 or 13 year olds.
162
:There are, there are groups for different
ages going up and different needs as well.
163
:And it has came on a lot compared
to when it first started up.
164
:Osbert: How have you seen that growth
when it started it a bit, bit different, a
165
:bit new, a bit unusual is it happening in
166
:most schools, most nurseries these days?
167
:Kat Vernon: There's a group
called MOWL, which is Midlothian
168
:Outdoor Woodland Learning Group,
uhhuh, which I'm part of as well.
169
:Yeah..
170
:And, they come together each month and
they do training, for example, I was
171
:doing training with them the other week
there where we were making nettle
172
:cakes and make the cordage uhhuh.
173
:And it's teaching them to
take new skills back Uhhuh.
174
:And they have a wider group as well,
which is OWL Scotland they come together
175
:a couple of times a year, in places
like Benmore and stuff like that.
176
:I suppose it's like climate change
and that's here and we basically
177
:need, maybe need's not the word,
but it would be beneficial if the
178
:children knew and got to love nature.
179
:And then they would become the stewards
going forward so if they're outdoor
180
:players, I mean even for the wellbeing
of people as well, you know, like
181
:children being outdoors and active
182
:And I mean, like I said, you can
be in nature and not know about it.
183
:Osbert: Yes.
184
:Kat Vernon: You know, if you're not
doing those sciences then would,
185
:you know there were insects in the
river, would you know that there's
186
:food in the trees and the plants?
187
:Osbert: You talked about spending lots
of time outside when you're growing
188
:up and like now with the wildfires
and climate change, seas becoming
189
:warmer and, and all the rest of it.
190
:How does that leave you
feeling about all of that?
191
:Kat Vernon: My son was a zoologist
and when he went to uni, they
192
:said to him pick three species,
which are in the endangered list.
193
:And by the time he was
finished, they were extinct.
194
:Osbert: Whoa.
195
:Kat Vernon: Um, so it can
be quite, quite drastic.
196
:. So I think, I think you've got
to do what you can and not overly
197
:think 'cause then you would become
beside yourself if you like.
198
:Yeah.
199
:. Something that you can
do to make a difference.
200
:And whether it's just, like I said,
once a month you go and do a river
201
:sample that collects the data that maybe
support the change that's required.
202
:And I think even like Becca's doing,
she's showing people what she's doing and
203
:making them aware, is really as important,
because if you're not aware of what's
204
:happening even on your doorstep, you know
205
:I think everybody really wants to help and
they know about climate change and they
206
:want to help, but whether they have time.
207
:It can be quite difficult, but I think,
I think little things are important
208
:as, and doing as much as you can.
209
:We come together as a Riverfly Group
to do species identification and stuff
210
:like that do training and it is a
lovely group of people, it's a nice
211
:group to be with and you look forward
to your once some month conversation.
212
:And, and having the sites throughout
Midlothian right down to, to
213
:Musselburgh is amazing, you know?
214
:the amount of people
that are involved in it.
215
:Osbert: But anyone can do this.
216
:It's not about having a degree first
and say before you can do this,
217
:Kat Vernon: get stuck in, even
when Rebecca says you're gonna do
218
:this podcast, I says, I can't say
that the insects names properly.
219
:We've got different names for them.
220
:We call them Flat Bodies
and Speedy Darters and
221
:. Osbert: And what would you say to someone
who was thinking, I see what's going
222
:on, I'm, you know, concerned about it,
I want to be doing something useful.
223
:You know, what, what would
your advice be to them?
224
:Kat Vernon: I would say definitely
just try and get involved in a group
225
:that you, you're interested in.
226
:You know, something that's, you
can make that small change with.
227
:Some of the sites, we've got lots
of people that are come together.
228
:So if you're not there one month, it
doesn't really matter, you're doing
229
:what you can do when you can do it.
230
:You're out in nature, you're being
with friends and you're sharing the
231
:experience whether it's good or bad.
232
:So, but I think just getting
involved in something that makes
233
:a difference is really important.
234
:Osbert: Looking ahead, all the different
partners public sector, the third
235
:sector, you know, private sector groups
involved in those, those discussions
236
:coming up with that plan is there
something you would really like them
237
:to be thinking about as they're working
on that and something you think should
238
:be different than it is at the moment.
239
:What would, what would
that be do you think?
240
:Kat Vernon: Well, it'd be clean rivers
to the end it with the great big insects
241
:and it to feed the fish that are gonna
feed the birds and looking to, educate
242
:people in what is happening on the
rivers and improving them as well.
243
:Just to have the improvement going
forward, the data being used in a
244
:positive way that'll bring that change,
that improves the river systems and our
245
:land and our water they're all important.
246
:Nature's important.
247
:Osbert: And there you have it.
248
:You've been listening to Kat
Vernon, who volunteers with Buglife
249
:on Changing Climate, Changing
Midlothian with me, Osbert Lancaster.
250
:I hope you found the conversation
as fascinating as I did.
