Episode 2

full
Published on:

16th Sep 2026

Training renewable energy systems installers - Andrew Lamond

Andrew Lamond, Director & Co-Founder of The Energy Training Academy, Dalkeith, talks with host Osbert Lancaster at Newbattle Abbey.

Listen to hear why Andrew set up the academy to provide training in the installation and maintenance of gas and renewable energy systems, and his reflections on the industry and its response to the climate crisis.

Andrew highlights the practical challenges of training both new and existing engineers in renewable systems, the different factors affecting new installations in build and existing housing stock, and the opportunities he sees for house builders to help drive the transition to renewables.

Changing Climate, Changing Midlothian explores what the climate and nature emergency means with people living and working in the county. Their reflections will help inform discussions as cross sector representatives and community leaders meet in October to agree a new Single Midlothian Plan setting collective outcomes and actions for the next three years.

Changing Climate, Changing Midlothian is produced for the Midlothian Community Planning Climate Emergency Group by Thrivable Scotland, and is kindly supported by Midlothian Climate Action Hub, Midlothian Community Planning and Midlothian Energy Ltd.

Find out more:

Thrivable Scotland: helping changemakers engage their colleagues, communities and stakeholders to solve challenges today while building capacity to thrive in an unpredictable future.

Transcript
Andrew Lamond:

Homeowners get an option to spec their kitchen.

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Why do they not get an option

to spec the green system.

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You could spec a granite

worktop, or different windows.

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But why not say you want a battery

in your house and you want double

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the number of solar panels.

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Rather than getting a retrofit

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Speaker: Hello.

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I'm Osbert Lancaster and this is

Changing Climate, Changing Midlothian,

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where we explore what the climate

and nature emergency means for people

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living and working in the county.

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In this episode, you'll hear from

Andrew Lamond, who's the director

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and co-founder of the Energy Training

Academy, which provides training in the

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installation and maintenance of gas and

renewable energy systems, including heat

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pumps, solar battery, and EV chargers.

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I met Andrew for a walk at Newbattle

Abbey College near the academy's

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training facility at Hardin Green

Industrial Estate in Dalkeith.

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I asked Andrew how he came

to set up the academy.

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Andrew Lamond: I was working in a

e and repair business back in:

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We were doing gas boiler

maintenance and installations.

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And I think just looking at the area

we worked in, there weren't a lot of

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training providers nearby, the closest

quality one was through Glasgow.

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I shared a lot of frustrations with

other local businesses that were having

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to travel, and I thought it would be

great to have something in the area

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that was more accessible, but also I

looked at the change of the industry.

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Mm-hmm.

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I thought there's potentially

an opportunity here to get

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in and do something now

ahead of huge, a huge demand.

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Well, a hopeful demand.

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Osbert Lancaster: So, so was the

drive to net zero very much on your

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radar when you started with that?

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Andrew Lamond: Well, yeah.

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It was because at the time there

was a lot of talk around heat

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pumps coming in, in big numbers.

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We're still waiting on that, but there

was setting a lot of talk of it back

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then and, and we thought, look, okay,

there's, there's a couple of things.

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We need more engineers, because I

could see even at that point, we were

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struggling to find good quality gas

engineers, heating engineers, just

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wasn't enough of 'em out there.

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And then with the, the shift in these

technologies, as we start looking

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towards low carbon alternatives,

like heat pumps, eh, but also the

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maintenance side, the maintenance

side quite often gets overlooked.

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We do talk, well, mainten

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Osbert Lancaster: solve the heat

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Andrew Lamond: pump

pumps off the heat pumps.

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Yeah.

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So I kind of thought, well, we're

gonna need, like, people can,

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without oversimplifying a heat pump

is two, two pipes, and then the

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wiring, but the, the maintenance

side, there's a lot more to that.

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And I think that's something

that was getting overlooked.

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So I thought, well, there's an opportunity

here to one, get people trained to

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instal them, but then going forward

to actually maintain them, look after

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all these systems, when the numbers

start to increase as, as they are now,

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we're gonna need more and more people

to instal and then maintain them.

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So there's an opportunity mm-hmm.

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But also the, the agent workforce that

we're seeing, being, being involved in

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it firsthand that you could see that

half your team was getting closer to

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retirement and they were starting out.

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Osbert Lancaster: Yeah.

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So there's a question like

the new blood coming through.

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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Well, if you look at the UK as a

whole across the gas industry over

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50% of the workforce are approaching

retirement and only 6% of the

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workforce are under 35 years old.

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So it's a huge problem for any companies

working in that industry, but also for

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homeowners and local authorities and

landlords because they can't get people

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to maintain and instal this equipment.

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And then certainly when we're looking at

decarbonization, who's gonna fit all?

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Osbert Lancaster: So that, that seems to

be something that comes up a lot in the in

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the press and certainly in the, the sector

press around we need this drive for heat

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pumps and solar and other technologies.

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Yeah.

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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If there's not enough people out

there knowing about the technologies,

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they won't promote the technologies.

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I've done it myself, if I've been

out on a customer's property and

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their gas boiler is on its last legs

and the correct advice is to replace

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that unit with something else, at the

time I would be promoting another gas

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boiler, 'cause that's what I knew.

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It was an easy job.

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I could make a bit of money doing it,

I could get it done relatively quickly.

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Whereas now the correct advice is

maybe looking at something like an air

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source heat pump, combined with solar

panels and a battery storage system.

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But unless I'm qualified to offer

that advice, I'm not gonna offer it.

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And also, if I'm not able to

do the work, as a self-employed

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person, I wouldn't promote that for

something else to take advantage of.

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Yeah.

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So, so there's that problem.

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I think as well, if we get more

homeowners, tenants and engineers

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trained, or at least educated in these

technologies, more of them are gonna

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promote it, and offer it to customers.

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Osbert Lancaster: Yeah.

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So how, how's that, how's it going?

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah, so, so we

opened the doors in February,:

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Osbert Lancaster: Right.

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Andrew Lamond: It's been slower

than we'd like in the, of

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course, in the low carbon space.

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Heat pumps in particular

has been disappointing.

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I think part of that is the regulation

around installing heat pumps

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and the qualifications you need.

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You, you could go out and instal heat

pumps tomorrow without a qualification.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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So that's something I a lot

of people don't realise.

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As it stands, you don't need to

have a level three qualification

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to instal a heat pump.

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Just, now you only need to have

a level three qualification if

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you're accessing MCS funding.

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So it's when you get the grants

for heat pumps, you have to have it

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done by an MCS registered business.

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Osbert Lancaster: Right.

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Apart from that, anyone can,

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Andrew Lamond: so, yeah.

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So on, for example, new build

sites, they're not using funding,

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so their engineers instal em, don't

have to be trained in heat pumps.

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So I think that's one of the,

the, the blockers, because we're

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seeing homeowners aren't having

trust in the installer, unlike the

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gas, which is heavily regulated.

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You can't work in gas unless

you put a Gas Safeguard.

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Yeah.

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And you have to retrain every five years.

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There's currently nothing

like that for heat pumps.

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Osbert Lancaster: And in terms of

helping tackle the climate crisis, reduce

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carbon emissions and indeed create,

warmer, and perhaps in the summer cooler

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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Osbert Lancaster: Cooler homes and

keep, and keep costs down for people.

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How important is, the

work that you're doing

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? Andrew Lamond: What we're doing quite

successfully is increasing awareness

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for the types of technology on offer.

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Certainly amongst trades people, we're

giving 'em the skills, but even just

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council staff, letting 'em know that

some of the options that are available

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as a social enterprise, we would like

to educate more homeowners and tenants.

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Not just on new low carbon technologies,

but even existing gas boilers, how to

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use them more efficiently and reduce

the carbon that they're burning.

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Because you can make a, a, a

condensing gas boiler can work

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quite efficiently if it's all set up

correctly, thermostats are dialled

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up right and TRVs are all balanced.

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You can have an efficient system.

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But I think certainly Midlothian

Council have been very supportive of

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what we've been doing since we started.

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They're fully behind it.

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They've got green pledgers

across the the area.

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So, so they're, they're supportive of

the whole green agenda, decarbonization

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and certainly the Academy.

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Osbert Lancaster: Are there any other big

issues affecting what you're trying to do?

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You mentioned, the issue around

qualifications , you, mentioned

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the ageing workforce and training

up the new generation, but what else

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is going on in that, that space?

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Andrew Lamond: There's quite a few issues.

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I, I think just now you get so many

different organisations, individuals, all

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with their own agenda and operating in

silos almost, and, and they're protective

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of what they've been doing in the past

and what they want to do going forward.

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I think to really see an improvement

quickly, we need to be working in

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the same direction and all looking

to accelerate skills delivery,

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but while maintaining quality.

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There are ways of doing things in

the past that are still good to

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do if you can get opportunities.

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And what I'm talking about

is apprenticeships for

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young people is a real issue.

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The colleges, they, they do a

great job, but the problem is

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employers aren't looking at the

apprenticeship as much as they used

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to as a way to recruit young people.

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It's too expensive, quite simply.

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The cost of an apprentice now

is, getting close to a hundred

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thousand pounds and that's, that's

if they stay through the, the whole

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course, they could drop out early.

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And the business, the employer, these

SMEs don't have huge amounts of money

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to, to spend their apprenticeships.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, and that money's wasted if

the person drops out, or, or even

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they go through the four years, get

qualified and leave and work for a

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competitor or become a competitor.

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So there's alternative ways of doing it.

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We, we certainly offer

something like that.

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But that, that's on the gas, the gas side.

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Osbert Lancaster: Yeah.

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Andrew Lamond: On the electrical

side, it's the same issue.

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Um, we'd love to get into it, but

there's no direct route for, say

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somebody, to become a solar panel

installer or a battery storage installer.

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As it stands right now, there's a skills

matrix in place that says you must

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complete a full four year apprenticeship,

SEQF level seven qualification.

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And then that's a prerequisite

that you can use to then do solar

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training or battery storage training.

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Something that we would like to see

as a route for young people to, or

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anyone, anyone that wants to change job

and get into low carbon installation

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space, just go straight and become

a solar, solar panel installer.

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Train them to do that job.

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Right.

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An intensive course.

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Make sure it's regulated,

quality training.

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But that's what they do.

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That person's not gonna rewire your

house, instal a fuel ring circuit, but

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they could instal solar panels, they

could wire a battery in, if that's

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what they've been trained to do.

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And it can work.

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I mean, I was trained as a gas engineer,

but I did a lot of electrical work.

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I, I installed fuel electric

systems for gas boilers, I installed

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smart controls, pumps, actuators.

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It was all wiring.

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I was, I was trained to do it.

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But I was never an electrician.

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So it can be, it can be done Uhhuh.

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And I know the likes of Octopus

Energy, they're, they're pushing

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that quite heavily down south.

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They're lobbying UK government to

get some kinda change like that

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where we can just train people

directly to do specific tasks.

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And if they want to then upskill

at a later date and become a

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fully qualified electrician,

that's, that's an option to them.

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Yeah.

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But just now

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Osbert Lancaster: to really see

things, they can actually get

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started in the business, start

earning some money and they can start

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah, of course.

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Osbert Lancaster: Doing some work.

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Yeah.

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Andrew Lamond: But, but that's

where the demand is just as well.

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We're seeing, we're seeing a lot of

demand certainly across Scotland for solar

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panels, but just now to, to get a solar

panel installer they need to go through

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that four year apprenticeship, and then

do a solar course, which is only a week.

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But still you're, you're

talking four years and a week.

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Yeah.

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So it's just slowing things down

where we could get somebody in a

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much shorter period, get 'em trained

to do a specific task that's

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actually gonna make a difference

to RSLs and big house builders.

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Osbert Lancaster: So that's,

that's something I guess that,

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requires change at UK level.

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Is it UK level that, or Scottish level?

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Perhaps, but

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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It's devolved.

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I think so I think it

can change in Scotland.

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But it's getting people to understand

that there are different ways to do it.

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And, a lot of that will be driven

by organisations that, like colleges

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for example, that will say it

needs to be a four year course.

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But they've got their d their reasons

for it being a four year course.

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I do agree that if it's a young person,

four years is optimal because it's

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16, 17 years old, they've still got

a bit of maturing to do, I think.

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Yeah.

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Osbert Lancaster: Yeah.

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Andrew Lamond: So I get the four

years, but something like myself,

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who came out with the Royal

Navy, eh, 25, I think it was.

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Did a course with Scottish Gas.

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It was 10 months in total, but that

was me, a qualified gas engineer.

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I didn't know at all.

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Of course I didn't, but I

had enough to start me off.

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Yep.

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I was qualified.

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I was able to work and learn on the job.

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And that's, if we're honest with

the real learning takes place

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when you're out there doing it.

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Osbert Lancaster: You said that there's

need for more collaboration, joined

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upness to enable these sort of changes.

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To happen without naming and shaming,

but, where do you see the opportunities

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for things that could be moved

forward, or at least some really

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useful conversations could actually

start happening to drive this forward?

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Andrew Lamond: Employers,

it's really employer led.

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We, we could get people through

shorter courses and qualified, but

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really we need the employer to work

with us and, and create a demand.

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Right now we are, we put a course out

there and we advertise it and we try and

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get people on it, which, which can work.

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But if we get an employer coming to us

and say, right, we need 10 heat pump

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installers, we've got ways we can do

that much quicker than going through

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a full four year apprenticeship.

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Osbert Lancaster: Right.

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So it it is potentially possible.

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It's just not happening at any

sort of scale to make it work?

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Andrew Lamond: No, not yet.

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We will be launching something

later this year, a plumbing route.

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So you're avoiding the

gas side altogether.

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You're going in as a plumber.

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A shorter, more intense plumbing course

that can lead to the heat pump course.

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So, so there are ways to do it.

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But, for us to launch a new course

like that, it's challenging 'cause we

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can't advertise it just now, so we

can't get any inquiries because we

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don't have approval to deliver it.

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To get approval, we have to write all

the course material and then develop a

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training space, and then we need to prove

that we've got the, the presentations, we

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have the full training programme covered.

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Once that's all agreed, it gets signed off

and then we're allowed to advertise it.

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Osbert Lancaster: That's a massive

investment of time and energy.

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Andrew Lamond: You're, you're paying out

a lot and time, money to set something up

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without any guaranteed bookings . Yeah.

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So I ideally I'd have a, an employer

come to me and say, "right, that's

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great, that's what we want to

do, let's, let's make it happen!"

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There's less of a risk.

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We could invest that time and, and

resource, build it all, set it all up,

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and then start delivering training.

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Osbert Lancaster: You

mentioned octopus energy.

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Yeah.

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Pushing at a UK level for

some of those changes.

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And that's massive employer.

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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Osbert Lancaster: If someone, an employer

was gonna come to you and say, we'd like

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you to create a course for heat pump

installers, or for solar panel installers,

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or whatever, what, what sort of scale

are you talking about there to make it,

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Andrew Lamond: to make it

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Osbert Lancaster: worthwhile,

really worthwhile and really

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make some change happen.

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Andrew Lamond: Well, we keep our

class sizes to eight people in a, in

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a cohort, but if we had a few of them

throughout the year, that's enough

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for us to deliver the training.

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As long as we've got a trainer busy,

well utilised that, then it makes sense.

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But, to make it worthwhile to set

up a new course, ideally we'd have

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an employer, I don't know, 10 to 20

employees and they say, we've got

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regular demand for training or, or

even one big name like an Octopus.

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Other companies will see them doing

it and think, well that's, that's

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good, let's do the same thing.

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It's good enough for Octopus,

it's good enough for us.

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Osbert Lancaster: So I guess, if, if one

thing came out of someone listening to

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this podcast, a local employer saying,

well, actually yeah, we can't find

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anyone to do it, maybe this is time

for us to train up our guys to do this.

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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I mean, I mean, the route that, that

we're working on, it's, it's quite simple.

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And, and the good thing with it, we

can take it to anyone that's currently

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not employed, so they don't have to

have any existing qualifications.

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It's a, a, a six week

introduction to plumbing course.

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So it's, it, it's starting off small.

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Osbert Lancaster: Yep.

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Andrew Lamond: We put

'em through six weeks.

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It's 90% of it's practical

training, eh, assessments in centre.

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It's all hands on, pipe building,

different rigs, sanitary wear

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radiators, some boiler work.

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They get a level two diploma that then

allows 'em to demonstrating experience

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on site, so, building up a portfolio

of work, once they've completed that,

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we can go on onsite, assess them, get

'em qualified with an NVQ level two.

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Once they have that, then we can

start putting 'em through on vented

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hot water systems and heat pumps.

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So you're all in, you're looking 14 weeks,

and you could have a heat pump installer.

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The plumbing apprenticeship will

cover lots of stuff and it's designed

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for younger people, and that's fine.

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But what we can do is we can really solve

a problem with a lack of skilled people

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to do this kind of low carbon work.

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Osbert Lancaster: So, so what are

you seeing in terms of demand?

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I guess both householders, but also I

guess social housing as well potentially.

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Andrew Lamond: It's, it's changing,

it is certainly changing I think

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Midlothian themself, I think they're

looking to move more towards heat

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pumps rather than gas boilers, so

we are starting to see a shift.

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In the private market, still a lot

of gas boilers going in, but the

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heat pump instals are increasing.

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As it starts to increase, we will see

people coming back to do, like maintenance

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courses, for example, FGAS, which is

the, the qualification you need to,

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to maintain an air source heat pump.

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That's the kinda stuff I

think will increase as we get

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more heat pumps installed.

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The demand is driven by cost

savings rather than climate

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change awareness, I think.

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And that's what we've noticed.

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I think that's why solar

and battery storage has been

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such a popular one for us.

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Osbert Lancaster: So is that

something that you're doing as

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well, solar and battery storage?

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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It's been, I would say, our most

popular course since we started.

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And I think that the main driver behind

that is the homeowner or, or tenant, they

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can understand how that saves them money.

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With a heat pump, there's a lot of myths.

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People say it doesn't work,

it costs a lot of money.

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The solar, they think, okay, you

stick that on the roof and it's gonna

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save me money on my electric bill.

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The sun shines, I don't

pay for electricity.

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So they understand it, it creates demand.

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So out of the 100,000 pound green

skills voucher scheme that we had,

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the majority of that was used for

solar and battery storage training.

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I think near enough, every time we run

that course, it's at least 75% full.

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Just now actually we're doing a funded

course, which is quite an interesting one.

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It's two weeks and every candidate

gets all the electrical qualifications

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they need to do this low carbon work.

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So they get battery storage, solar

pv, and EV chargers, within two weeks.

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And that's them ready to go and start

doing low carbon installation work.

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Osbert Lancaster: So I guess there's a

balance for you of how much do you try

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and drive the things which are not getting

public acceptance or engagement so much

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like the heat pumps, or do you just follow

the, the market trends on the, the solar

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and the battery and the EV installers and

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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There's definitely a balance, as a

business you've got to do what people want

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because that's what keeps the lights on.

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But at the same time like you said,

you are trying to push something

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that is the right direction.

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Our academy has about seven or eight

different brands of heat pump in it, we

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have heat pumps dotted about all over the

place, but this year, we've had to reduce

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the number of heat pump courses, 'cause we

just weren't getting enough demand for it.

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So we were doing it once a month.

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Now we're kinda scheduling

it once a quarter.

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Any new build now is, is not allowed to

have a fossil fuel burning appliance.

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So it's either an HIU, air source

heat pump, or electric boiler.

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But we are also seeing a shift,

I've heard anyway that some house

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builders are starting to demand anyone

working on the heat pumps has to

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have that level three qualification.

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Although that's not an official regulation

yet, house builders themselves are

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starting to ask for it, I think so they

can prove quality to their customers.

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Osbert Lancaster: Right.

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So the new build is gonna be the

main market for the heat pumps?

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Andrew Lamond: I, I, I think so.

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The retrofit side it's is there is

growing in popularity, but it's not

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quite where we need it to be just yet.

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Osbert Lancaster: Yeah.

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And I guess one of the drivers that

might change that is there's going to

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be a, an inquiry at UK level looking

at electricity and price regulation

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and unlinking it from gas prices

that, could really shift the market.

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Andrew Lamond: Yeah.

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Well it also open the door

up to electric boilers.

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The good thing with an electric boiler,

it looks very much like a, a normal gas

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boiler, it's much easier for the the

homeowner or the tenant to get used to.

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It does the same job because you,

'cause because really if we're

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honest, the customer only cares

about having heating and hot water.

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They're not too fussed where

it comes from, as long as

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it's well priced and it works.

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A lot of time these decisions are

made by "does it save me money?"

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and once they get their head around

the, the efficiency difference of a

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heat pump, especially if it comes with

solar panels and battery, they see the

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whole package as a cost saving package.

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I'd be keen to see more what

they're calling green mortgages,

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Osbert Lancaster: right.

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Tell me about a green mortgage.

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Andrew Lamond: Well, some lenders were

talking about adding extra onto your,

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your mortgage or you can borrow more

against your mortgage to make green

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changes and improvements to your home.

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That's the kinda thing I'd

like, like to see more of.

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And the other thing that, that annoys

me, especially with new builds,

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you see now they've all got solar

panels, but very few they they

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tick the minimum box they'll get

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Osbert Lancaster: Yeah.

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When they could be

covering the whole roof.

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Andrew Lamond: Three or four.

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But homeowners get an option

to spec their kitchen.

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Why do they not get an option

to spec the green system.

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Osbert Lancaster: Right.

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So that doesn't need to wait for

government regulations to change that bit.

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Andrew Lamond: House builders could

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Osbert Lancaster: change.

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A house builder can decide to do that.

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. Andrew Lamond: I said you, you could spec

a granite worktop, or different windows.

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But why not say you want a battery

in your house and you want double

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the number of solar panels.

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Osbert Lancaster: That would

be interesting, wouldn't

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Andrew Lamond: it?

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Yeah.

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And then you're, you're passing

the decision over to the, the

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homeowner and they're paying for it.

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Rather than getting a retrofit later on.

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Osbert Lancaster: Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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So is that, is that something you,

is there any sign of any house house

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builders in Scotland looking at that?

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Andrew Lamond: I've, I've not seen,

but that's the kinda thing I'd like

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to, to speak to a house builder

about and say, well, why don't

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you offer that to your customers?

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Osbert Lancaster: What

other, conversations need to

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be happening in your view?

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Particularly in and around the public

sector, private sector in Midlothian,

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and on the ground in Scotland, that can

actually unlock change sooner rather than

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later, rather than just waiting for price

changes and for regulations at UK level.

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Yeah.

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Andrew Lamond: Change.

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Well, there's a lot of

good work being done.

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There's funding available there's,

there's centres like ours opening up.

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I, I think the support, the support's

great, but I think it needs to be

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focused into the right sectors,

the right industries to actually

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make these changes that we need.

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We need skills everywhere, but

right now we need specific skills

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to meet climate change targets.

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For example, Southeast Scotland is

due to spend 18 billion over the

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next 20 years in construction work.

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We need skilled people to do that work.

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So if there's funding there, putting

people through, I dunno, um, barista

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courses or, no disrespect to baristas,

but, but is that what we need to

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achieve climate change targets?

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We're the kinda new kids in the block.

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Certainly we started off, there was

a lot of people saying, who are you?

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What are you doing here?

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But we're trying to

do something different.

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We want to work with other people and I

think I'm seeing things change and we are

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starting to break down barriers and we are

getting people open to, working with us.

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I mean, we like to come up with new

ideas, new ways of doing things.

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Sometimes you get shot down because

of saying you can't do that.

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That's not how things are done.

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Say, well, let's, let's

have a look and why not?

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Let's, let's try it.

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I think that's the only way you can,

you can get progress is by trying

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different things rather than just

sticking to what's been done for decades.

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Osbert Lancaster: Well that's sort

of why we've got the climate crisis

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we, we have is because we are doing

the same thing we've been doing

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for decades and we now need to

find some new ways of doing things.

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Andrew Lamond: Trying new things.

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Yeah.

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That's what we'll do.

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Keep trying.

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Make a change.

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And there you have it.

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You've been listening to Andrew

Lamond, director and co-founder

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of the Energy Training Academy.

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I hope you found the conversation as

fascinating and as insightful as I did.

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For more information about

the Energy Training Academy,

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check out the show notes.

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Speaker 3: This conversation, along

with others in this Changing Climate,

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Changing Midlothian podcast, will bring

a variety of valuable perspectives and

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experiences to help inform discussions

as cross-sector representatives and

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community leaders meet this October

to agree a new single Midlothian

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:

plan, setting collective outcomes

and actions for the next three years.

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You'll find more details

about this in the show notes.

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Changing Climate, Changing Midlothian

is produced for the Midlothian Community

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Planning Climate Emergency Group by

me, Osbert Lancaster from Thrivable

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Scotland, and is kindly supported by

Midlothian Climate Action Hub, Midlothian

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Community Planning, and Vattenfall

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About the Podcast

Changing Climate, Changing Midlothian
Reflections from our community
What does the climate and nature emergency mean for people living and working in Midlothian?

I talk with people across the county and ask what would help them and others make more positive changes for the communities and places they care about.

We’ll discuss how organisations could work together better to co-create, deliver and support even more action on the ground.

As well as sharing inspiring stories and insights with you and other listeners, the conversations in this podcast will help cross sector representatives and community leaders as they meet in October to set collective outcomes and actions for the next three years in the Single Midlothian Plan.

About your host

Profile picture for Osbert Lancaster

Osbert Lancaster

Osbert is an experienced facilitator and podcaster, helping changemakers engage their colleagues and stakeholders to solve challenges today while building capacity to thrive in an unpredictable future. Osbert lives in Edinburgh and has previously worked in Midlothian.